I’m about fed up with drama

The drama llamas are rampaging through various groups in my real life; they stampede incessantly in our national and local politics; and the unholy row that has been raging in Kullervo’s comment threads the last few days (not his fault, he wrote a really good post!) about has me ready to wash my hands of the entire online Hellenic community… but then the bastards would win, cause I do like an awful lot of y’all.

*sigh* I guess all I can do now is quote the immortal wisdom of Bill S. Preston, Esq. and Ted “Theodore” Logan – “Be excellent to each other.” Dammit.


17 thoughts on “I’m about fed up with drama

  1. Kayleigh

    Damn. I guess it’s time for another comic, isn’t it?

    I hate how it’s always the same people causing the drama in the Hellenic community. You think that they’d grow up.

  2. thehouseofvines

    Just remember that the “community” is not the religion. Since retiring from the online world I have been immensely more happy, contented, and connected with my gods. It’s amazing how stress-free my life is now, and how much more writing I actually get done.

    As far as the frakus goes: people are never going to convince those trolls; they have dedicated their lives to going around sniping at others and spreading disinformation. And because they have no actual lives, they spend far more time doing so than anyone else possibly could. But at this stage everyone recognizes that they are obnoxious jerks and have nothing valuable to contribute. That’s why every single group, representing every point on the spectrum, has disassociated themselves from those two, including the arch-conservative wing. The only way to win is by others speaking up, sharing their insights and experiences. Not engaging with them, because that’s futile, but talking on the lists and forums, making blog posts, writing books and essays, etc. If enough people do so it’ll become abundantly clear that those two do not represent the majority, and in fact hold views repudiated by everyone else.

  3. executivepagan Post author

    Oh, this has nothing to do with my relationship with the Gods, just people. Maybe I just need to take an online break and chill for a while…

  4. Cat C-B

    Actually, although there’s a fair amount of heat in the comments section, at least most of what is being debated are perspectives on a religion, rather than simply ad hominem attacks–though, by the end, there are a few of those.

    Having been pretty nearly dismayed by the discussion forum in recent weeks over at The Wild Hunt (improving at this point, at least a bit, thank the gods) I actually found the discussion overall to be a breath of fresh air. (My least favorite thread at Wild Hunt involved smearing Pagans who disliked Christian-bashing as “Wiccan slave girls.” Ugh.)

    I have noticed, however, that there do seem to be a pretty high proportion of Pagan web trolls from the recon communities. I am not sure why this is–perhaps Wiccans have enough scope for mischief-making in person, and therefore don’t have as much need to stir the pot online? I don’t really know.

    I do know that some of us Pagans are in need of firm reminder of the principle of hospitality or /a>.


  5. executivepagan Post author

    Certainly an important principle! And one that I have always tried to adhere to both as host and as guest (xenia, after all, being one of the core ethical principles of Hellenismos – not that you can tell it, some days).

  6. Kayleigh

    Wiccan … slave girls? So, would they wear chain mail bikinis with pentacles over the nipples or what? *confused geek look*

    I have noticed that a lot of the trolls at the Wild Hunt are recon, but it seems that more and more recons are posting over there in general. (A year ago, I swear every commenter was Wiccan.)

    Mary Doria Russell, who converted to Judaism, said that as part of her conversion she picked up the legacy of the Holocaust. Like it or not, we pick up the pain and sorrow from a devastating, centuries-long spiritual/cultural attack when we convert to polytheism; I don’t know that our communities are as well-equipped as Jewish ones in dealing with the raw emotions that result. The comment rules now at the Wild Hunt don’t address this problem deeply enough. It’s like treating a gaping wound with a band-aid.

    However, I do look forward to what Apuleius has to say about Christianity, especially when he provides appropriate citations on his blog. :) γνῶθι σεαυτόν

  7. executivepagan Post author

    Like it or not, we pick up the pain and sorrow from a devastating, centuries-long spiritual/cultural attack when we convert to polytheism

    That’s an interesting point… While it’s true that once we have chosen to step into a particular life context we eventually have to deal with all of it in some way, there are significant differences between that historical legacy and the Shoah
    – one of the most important being the distance in time. I fear it could be dangerous and self-defeating to overplay that particular comparison (look at how Wicca, and by popular association the entire Neopagan movement, is still recovering from the “Burning Times” hysteria).

  8. Kayleigh

    Yes, there are many differences (such as number murdered and motive), but I think that the atrocities might have similar impacts on the psyche of individuals who are not given adequate community support. One can only deal with so much before it becomes overwhelming.

    Temporal distance doesn’t always heal pain.

  9. executivepagan Post author

    I don’t know that I feel “pain” in relation to the killing of ancient polytheists… I am certainly more *aware* of the history now, and that awareness does somewhat color my perception of current events, but it’s not as though they were my blood ancestors, or as though I had “joined the tribe”, as conversion to Judaism is often described. I truly think the two situations are fundamentally different in too many ways to make the comparison overly helpful (YMMV, of course).

  10. thehouseofvines

    Definitely agreed with you here Erik. I hate when people play the victim card, especially when there’s no basis for it whatsoever. If a contemporary Pagan is going to get worked up over the atrocities committed by Christians in the past – to the point where they feel personally aggrieved – then they need to understand that it goes both ways and they share the blood-guilt caused by the martyrdom of the early Christians. Hell, for that matter, I could get all indignant at Roman Reconstructionists because the Senate outlawed the worship of Bacchus and killed thousands of his devotees and later destroyed temples of Isis and persecuted her followers. I won’t do that because 1) no Roman Recon today has done any such thing to me or my fellow-initiates and 2) I’m well aware that humans suck. Pagans treated Christians like shit when they were power; Christians treated Pagans like shit when they were in power; Moslems treated Christians and Jews like shit when they had it and so on and so forth. Even now we’re seeing violence perpetuated by Buddhists in some parts of the world, which is a real shame because they had a pretty good run there for awhile.

    It does us no good to rehash the crimes of the past. Yes, be aware of them. But blaming people, especially people who didn’t actually commit those evils, only perpetuates it and shuts down the walls of communication.

    I’m not saying that Christians are automatically our best friends. You see folks like Bob Barr and Pat Robertson and you know, deep down, they wish they still had the power to punish the infidel. But not every Christian feels that way, and it’s wrong to damn them by association. Especially since many of them are just as concerned with civil and religious liberties as the rest of us, and could be strong allies in the fight against tyranny.

  11. executivepagan Post author

    I’d much rather hang out or work with an open-minded and loving Christian than a bitter or fundie Pagan.

  12. Kullervo

    Like it or not, we pick up the pain and sorrow from a devastating, centuries-long spiritual/cultural attack when we convert to polytheism

    I don’t buy this at all.

  13. Feral Boy

    I’d much rather see what I can do that’s positive in the world than re-hash ancient history, or “hunker in the bunker” with other paranoids who think the dominant religion/culture is after them personally (been there, done that).

    Reminds me of a Doonesbury strip a couple years back. An American soldier talking to an Iraqi (I’m paraphrasing here):

    Am: So what’s the situation in your village?
    Ir: People in the next town killed some of my relatives.
    Am: When did this happen?
    Ir: 1548
    Am: What is WRONG with you people?!?

    I’m afraid I’d have to agree.

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